What do you call a small dose cycle for a beginner

[Guest22]

We have had a post or two about cycles for a beginner and what i would really like to know is what the LOWEST dose you would agree is good to make consistant gains on.

I have been on only 15mg per day of D-Bol on a 14 day on 14 day off cycle and over 6 weeks (4 weeks actually taking AAs - 210mg) I have put on 10 lbs, nearly two weeks after that and I have not lost anything and my diet this fortnight has not been too good.

I know OSC has used low and high dose cycles and is now saying for newbie type cycles low dose can work well (I have to agree ATM)

Big has his opinions aswell and i am sure big daddy, Pscarb, Hacks and winger etc all have their opinions, why's and wherefores

I would like to hear them all, hopefully on this thread

Please fire away.

Please rememnber I am asking about cycles for a newbie to AAs not new to training.

[big]

You should be able to make SOME gains on pretty much any cycle to be honest. Heck, you should be able to make gains clean for several years.

What comes into play IMO is goals.

IMO, a reasonable first cycle for someone who weighs about 200lbs, has been training solidly for at least 2 years and is over 21, and is prepared to really eat a whole lot of protein, is somewhere in the 500mg/week ballpark if they are looking to be competitive in either BBing or PLing.

Everyone is different though. I have just run a cycle that OSC would probably say should have put me in a coffin by now, yet I got no adverse sides at all. I know a few VERY experienced people who have run 6 months+ on circa 1.5-2g/week who got blood tests done regularly with almost no strange levels. Then there are other people who would probably have problems on anything more than 500mg/week or so.

For a reasonable trade-off between great gains and few sides, 500mg is a good starting point IMO.

If you can make good gains on less, that's great. But don't confuse 2 weeks post-cycle as being "kept" gains. See if that 10lbs is lean, and see if you still have it after another month or so clean. Also, consider whether you started steroids way too early if you are keeping that (perhaps the use of the gear just made you focus more on your diet and training... and/or is placebo).

BTW, 500mg is NOT high dose by any stretch of the imagination. It is moderate at best. I have frequented boards that recommended 750mg of test and 400mg of deca, and staying on-cycle permanently as being the best approach.

[Guest22]

You should be able to make SOME gains on pretty much any cycle to be honest. Heck, you should be able to make gains clean for several years.

What comes into play IMO is goals.

IMO, a reasonable first cycle for someone who weighs about 200lbs, has been training solidly for at least 2 years and is over 21, and is prepared to really eat a whole lot of protein, is somewhere in the 500mg/week ballpark if they are looking to be competitive in either BBing or PLing.

Everyone is different though. I have just run a cycle that OSC would probably say should have put me in a coffin by now, yet I got no adverse sides at all. I know a few VERY experienced people who have run 6 months+ on circa 1.5-2g/week who got blood tests done regularly with almost no strange levels. Then there are other people who would probably have problems on anything more than 500mg/week or so.

I know pscarb and others use high dose cycles and Ps's bloods are ok and checked regularly

For a reasonable trade-off between great gains and few sides, 500mg is a good starting point IMO.

If you can make good gains on less, that's great. But don't confuse 2 weeks post-cycle as being "kept" gains. See if that 10lbs is lean, (I will confirm this and the extra bits at the end of the cycle, but there is more definition and the abs are definately more defined) and see if you still have it after another month or so clean. Also, consider whether you started steroids way too early if you are keeping that (perhaps the use of the gear just made you focus more on your diet and training. (diet was kicked into gear a good month before the cycling started).. and/or is placebo).

Firstly on the too early part I am 42 and been training for a fair few years

BTW, 500mg is NOT high dose by any stretch of the imagination. It is moderate at best. I have frequented boards that recommended 750mg of test and 400mg of deca, and staying on-cycle permanently as being the best approach. I know exactly what you are talking about

As i said at the start of this thread, there are differing opinions and I am interested in hearing them all, healthy debate is a good thing IMO :)


. :hitting: :D

[DB]

i dont think 500 mg is needed really first time..u'll grow fine first pop from 20mg dbol a day and 250 test a week

[big]

i dont think 500 mg is needed really first time..u'll grow fine first pop from 20mg dbol a day and 250 test a week

250 test/week + 20mg dbol/day is about 400mg/week which isn't that far from 500 darling ;)

[DB]

well its 20% off dumbass..man if u were 20% longer u'd be almost average!:D

[k man]

We have had a post or two about cycles for a beginner and what i would really like to know is what the LOWEST dose you would agree is good to make consistant gains on.

I have been on only 15mg per day of D-Bol on a 14 day on 14 day off cycle and over 6 weeks (4 weeks actually taking AAs - 210mg) I have put on 10 lbs, nearly two weeks after that and I have not lost anything and my diet this fortnight has not been too good.

I know OSC has used low and high dose cycles and is now saying for newbie type cycles low dose can work well (I have to agree ATM)

Big has his opinions aswell and i am sure big daddy, Pscarb, Hacks and winger etc all have their opinions, why's and wherefores

I would like to hear them all, hopefully on this thread

Please fire away.

Please rememnber I am asking about cycles for a newbie to AAs not new to training.

hi mate on the 2 weeks off are you running any clomid or nolva and at what doses if any ?

i know a few guys running 2 on 2 off but with high dose dbol ie 100mg ed and it is working very well

[Guest22]

Its a low dose, so not necessary, however on first off cycle took nolva for first 5 days at 20mg as i had an itchy nipp, not on 2nd off cycle

[ONE SMART COOKIE]

Not to get into any disagreements about this and ever decreasing circles etc etc etc,I see it like this after all my yrs of being involved in bbing...

The average gear user(non professional or non/irregular competor)will use gear for on average about 5-8 yrs before either packing in training or moving their focus onto some other goal....now during all that time for numerous reasons cycles will always get larger(over a period of time)the size of the doses will increase from cycle to cycle year to year without fail...more and more compounds are added and the cycles become more elaborate to keep the gains coming,even if all other areas are as they should be.

Now taking that into account aint it better to start of at "the lowest dose possible"?because to me if a guy starts on a cycle of orals and shots at what is normally quoted as 500mg a week plus orals what are they going to be using say 3 yrs down the line? 3-4-5grms?and it does happen we all know that dont we?

Imo it is better to give the facts straight and honest and say look mate stick with a very low dose and build up from there,not in a round about way of couple shots a week and some tabs with the "if I dont say that they`ll go looking for the info/conformation on some other board" cos if they do go looking somewhere else to me they shouldn`t be in the sport or even taking drugs because there is no way at any point are they going to be sensible with their health or whatever it is they shove into themselves and no matter what solid sound advice they are given "they will always ignore it"

We need to get back into this sport respect and total respect for the drugs that are being used not just see them as some sort of (a)get big quick scheme (b)the only way to get bigger (c)just another supplement like creatine et al.

I have seen a lot in my 18+ yrs in this game and a lot of it aint pretty and the drug side of things is the ugliest and I personnely blame the media,the bbing mags,bullsh!t from the supplement manufacturers,society getting lazier by each generation and the internet for harbouring way too many so called self important experts/gurus who couldnt tell me the difference between their head and ar5e never min give me good solid sound and safe drug using information..

None of us are qualified doctors or pharmasists or scientists in genetics yet we give out information no matter how well meaning or innocent or even safe(as we see it)that could have potential consequences to some other bloke on the end of a computer monitor,we cant see what goes on inside their lives wether they are telling the truth with regards what they say they do with their training and diet and boozing/recreational habits yet we tell them what extra drugs to add to their lifestyles.

I`ve known quite a few excompetitors,some british champs over the years and beleive me after they have been off the juice for a few yrs gotten away from the blinkered lifestyle we lead when competing and gaining do they look back and reality sets in and question what they did and how "they wished they had done it" and wonder if they have taken yrs off their lives be it 5-10-15-20 or whatever and wonder what if any problems health wise await them around the carner as old age creeps in.

I know I bang on a lot about doses and may even come across as anti gear, I`m not,I`m too intelligent to know that people will never not take gear,but what I prefer to do is give them good solid safe(imho)advice on taking very powerfull drugs which they are...

I love this sport more than probably any of you would ever dream off or understand,I still live and breath it every minute of everyday after all these years,and yet it saddens me to see the way it has lowered itself to just a pharmacutical convention at every competition and it is much more than that...

[winger]

I know a bloke that is on HRT and takes a shot of 200-250 mgs of Upjohn testosterone cyp every 3 weeks. It keeps him at the high end of the testosterone levels for an average man. Thats right, they test him every 3 weeks before his shot and he is still right there. Kinda strange if you look at the half life.
I did a cycle of deca derabolin 60 and made great gains 23 years ago. I think I took one shot of 60mgs of deca a week. I also did a dbol cycle of about 10 mgs a day for maybe 4 weeks 23 years ago. Not mixing the two. Strength was out the roof. Each workout weight was now my warmup weight. I even got sore elbows from the strength gains.
Two years ago (age 43) I did a 13 week cycle of deca and did 600 mgs a week and put 50 pounds on my bench. I used to do 7 reps with 225, now I do 12 reps with 225, still 2 years later. Two weeks after my last shot I had a major crash and it was not pretty.
So now I am afraid of all gear. I am a 45 year old man and I dont recover well.
Presantly. I have done 1 shot of tes enenthate of 250 on two occasions. Both shots about 6 months apart about 1 year ago. That is one shot of 250 a year ago, and one about 6-8 months ago. I did notice it. The sex drive was up for about 21 days, just like my bloke on hrt.
About 3 months ago I did 17 days of winny of 30 mgs. The gurus say it is a waste unless you take 50 mgs a day. When I took my first tab I felt my bp jump. I did not like the feeling of the winny at all. I felt every tab that I took.
Bottom line, for me, I will never do a cycle myself. If I do it wont last more than 21 days. Hormones are everything. If you screw that up you are fcuked.

[big]

well its 20% off dumbass..man if u were 20% longer u'd be almost average!:D

Honey, if you were 20% shorter, you'd be inside out.

[Guest22]

Nice posts there OSC and Winger, interesting stuff.

[winger]

Honey, if you were 20% shorter, you'd be inside out.
LOL DB and Big.Nice posts there OSC and Winger, interesting stuff.
Notice how the mod brought the thread back on topic?....................lol ;)

[SiKbOy]

My first cycle was 500 mg of test e a week for 10.
50 mg of dbol for the 1st 4 weeks.

Thanks to the test i felty like superman and had great gains.

IMO, if you chose only 1 aas, test is best.

[k man]

LOl ski you get all over bro

how is NYC QG still mod on UM


pretty heavy dose on dbol for a first cycle dude

[SiKbOy]

Ya it was heavy for a first cycle, actually I did a couple of dbol only before running between 20 and 30 mg for 4 weeks, but i responded well and kept most of the gains from my dbol only and that I could have run it much higher.

I can eat loads of dbol and not have any probs.

[winger]

IMO, if you chose only 1 aas, test is best.
Spot on mate!Ya it was heavy for a first cycle, actually I did a couple of dbol only before running between 20 and 30 mg for 4 weeks, but i responded well and kept most of the gains from my dbol only and that I could have run it much higher.

I can eat loads of dbol and not have any probs.No water retention? For the newbies, water retention equals high blood pressure.
Water retention is ok, it actually makes you strong as hell, but if you have high blood pressure then look out kidneys. :)

[SiKbOy]

Spot on mate!No water retention? For the newbies, water retention equals high blood pressure.
Water retention is ok, it actually makes you strong as hell, but if you have high blood pressure then look out kidneys. :)
I had some water retention, but a lot of it was kept in check because i was runnin an AI with the test and dbol, when i just took the 20-30 mg of dbol over 4 weeks, i didnt get any water retention probs, me thinks you only get probs like this if you exceed the 30 mg point.

[Hackskii]

250 test for a first cycle is ok and probably safe.
Any higher and you can suffer from high blood pressure.
It is not bad to start low and then add later.
Single compounds will let you know which ones do what.
So 250 test is just fine for a first cycle of 8-10 weeks.
If you do get high blood pressure then what are you going to do in the time the test wears off sometime in the next couple or few weeks?

500 first cycle is heavy, i see most do this first cycle but anything over 400mg gives me high blood pressure, and even that 400 elevates it.

[SiKbOy]

I was o.k on 500 mg ew, just fine.